Break-Ups Are Expensive

The first guest on the show is...my best friend. Who has gone through what most (if not all) of us have... and that's a break up.

We're talking about sharing finances, what happens with money when you split, and advice on what you can do.

Because.... well, break-ups are expensive!

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Simone Martha Huggins:
I've spent the last five years learning from those brilliant minds in money, wealth, and investing. And now I'm part of a group of driven women who are changing the game and taking control. Don't know where to start. I get it. So join me and follow along. As I learn, apply and share the secrets towards more money, more investing and more freedom. My name is Simone, Martha Huggins, and welcome to ms. Wealthy's kiss. My money podcast.

Simone Martha Huggins:
Today's episode is our, or my first guest, and I'm bringing on my best friend because she kind of has a story that I think a lot of you will relate to. And even if you're not going through it right now, you've probably gone through it. I think all of us have, or if you haven't gone through it, you know, you probably will CERN and that is breaking up and what you do with money at that point, particularly when you have your finances. So immeshed together, especially when you've been together for that long. So without further ado, I want to introduce my girlfriend, Jasmine, welcome to the podcast.

Jasmine:
Thanks for having me.

Simone Martha Huggins:
Thank you for coming on and sharing a story. I know that it is a little bit uncomfortable sometimes, maybe to talk about, but I think that it helps a lot of women in relationships that are being in relationships. She, with messy breakups, I know that yours wasn't messy in terms of its unraveling and go quite amicable. You have a good relationship. Obviously you have a son that changes things. But despite that, I think that even still you go through this kind of split and then you're like, what happened to the rest of that stuff? Is it love split?

Jasmine:
Yup.

Simone Martha Huggins:
And then there's the other split.

Jasmine:
I think there's definitely an element of feeling quite vulnerable when the relationship ends and, and feeling like not necessarily a power play, but needing to understand, well, what's yours, what's mine. And, and how do we, you know, how am I going to feel protected? Because the relationship was definitely a protect, like a, a level of protection and then in a safety net for the future, because you mentioned that you're going to retire together. You're going to live in that house together, or you're going to sell that house and you're going to be one to another house together everything's together. And then when you separate it's you, there's a level of, I guess, feeling distressed about, you know, what does this mean for me? Like, where am I going to live? What, what, you know, is my pension necessarily as strong as his and, and, you know, do I need to work longer? All of these kinds of things that disrupt a lot of questions for us.

Simone Martha Huggins:
Yeah. And it's like, it's, you know, you were together so long for 12 years,

Jasmine:
10 years,

Simone Martha Huggins:
10 years. And when you get to that point, you don't start thinking in what will I do myself, even when you get married. So the women, yeah. It's way when you get married, you don't cool down the aisle start planning your wedding with the intention of, Oh, what's going to happen if I'm alone. Like you just don't, that's not something that you prepare for or even want to think about.

Jasmine:
Yeah, definitely. And I think there's still things that, um, that I guess I probably haven't thought about, um, now being single and, um, and having a child on my own, there's probably going to be costs and expenses that will pop up and, and surprise me.

Simone Martha Huggins:
And so going back to the start, obviously, when you were a kid all about money beliefs form from when we're very young, what did you think about money when you were younger?

Jasmine:
Um, look, I, I don't think I necessarily had, um, the strongest, uh, or wisest money advice when I was younger. We were very, my parents were separated when, um, when I was five and, um, my mum worked incredibly hard. We never w you know, we were never wanting of anything. We were all very spoiled and very lucky. And so I guess there was an element of us thinking, or growing up that money did grow on trees to some extent, and that it was readily available. Um, even though we knew mum worked incredibly hard, I don't think, you know, as a five-year-old or even ten-year-old, you can necessarily understand what it takes to be able to purchase things. I remember having an incident actually with my mom, where you go, I'd go to my friend's house and there be TVs and, you know, um, all nice furniture. And I remember saying to her, why can't we just get like a TV, like there's those rent to buy schemes? And she was like, jazz. Like, you can't necessarily get that. It comes with interest. And I did, I just didn't understand that we never had that kind of level of, um, business, uh, business sensibility around us. Um, even though my mum worked incredibly hard, it was, it was kind of like a, we were living to make ends meet in a way, rather than thinking of the future. Everything was very reactive rather than thinking longterm.

Simone Martha Huggins:
And do you think that living that way, growing up that way and going into relationships later on in your life, do you think that changed or dictated how you acted or

Jasmine:
How you, um, I think I probably, I think that the way that I grew up with money definitely has influenced my behavior. I'm definitely a spender, um, and like to buy things for, for people even like my son, you know, he he's quite spoiled. Um, and you know, he doesn't want for anything, um, in terms of our relationship, I think it probably wasn't until I, I guess we were together when we got married, that I really started to think about things that I never really thought about, which were, you know, pensions and retirement. And, um, you know, of what point do you need to be able to stop working or can you stop working and how much do you need? Um, so yeah, I, yeah, it definitely, I think getting married and, and getting, getting further down in the relationship made me think about the future. But prior to that, not necessarily.

Simone Martha Huggins:
Yeah. Isn't it funny, like when you're on your own, you don't, sometimes it's easier to just think, well, I can just do my thing and I'll work it out, but yeah. It changes when well changes when you're together and then it changes again when you have kids, because your kind of future projections, a massively shifted. Yeah. So being together, do you think that, so you have a spender personality? Did he have the same?

Jasmine:
Um, yeah, I think he did. Um, but I think he was very generous. Um, but I think he was, was better at thinking about the future and, you know, he always was very diligent with his pensions game and in the UK, the companies, he worked for tended to match what he would put in. Um, so that was definitely a priority for him. Whereas I probably didn't, I worked for smaller companies and in UK, it wasn't compulsory to, uh, to put in superannuation or, or pension. It was, it was kind of a proactive thing. So in some respects, I think it's by being over there for so long, I lost out, um, in many ways. Um, but yeah, he was definitely more diligent when it came to spending money, even though you was

Simone Martha Huggins:
Spender. Yeah. And that, and that ends up, you end up in a kind of difficult position, right. Particularly depending on where everyone is treating in from you'll have different retirement. Skiing's based on the government in Australia, it's called your super, and it's mandatory in the UK. It's called your pension and just Mediterranean adjustment tree, which is crazy to think in the U S it's your 401k, but it meant that, and I know this because being your friend, it meant that you end up, ended up with a retirement fund that was significantly less than your partners. And that's a challenging, like you took time off work obviously to raise your son for the first year. Yeah. Like that's hard to leave a relationship and then go, hold on. This is what I'm left with.

Jasmine:
Yeah.

Jasmine:
How did you feel about that? Um, I think to some extent, I still feel quite exposed, um, and frustrated, I guess, cause I went into the relationship, um, you know, with the mentality of what's mine is yours and everything was on the table. Um, and then potentially to some extent when it comes down to ending, that relate well, we have, when it comes down to ending that relationship, that shift or that, that kind of, um, what you imagined their personality or their, their viewpoint on those things had might not necessarily, they weren't aligned when it came to division of assets. Um, I think you, yeah, it becomes a bit of a power play, I think, at the end of the day. Um, and so yeah, I, I still feel, um, Exposed, um, and concerned about, about my future because I don't have that nest egg that, um, yeah. But I want to felt like we had yeah. Um,

Jasmine:
Okay.

Simone Martha Huggins:
You know, it is what it is. Uh, and I mean, obviously your experience with breaking up and separating is I guess in the financial sense, not as extreme and horrendous and horrific as people that I know in people that I certainly know that are close to me and have gone through. Um, I think your partner, we were ex partner has been pretty fair, I guess, in game. And like you said before, he's quite, you know, he's always been quite generous as a personality

Jasmine:
And would it have been a lot harder at he? Not definitely. Um, I think, I mean, one of the things that you, when you separating you have a child and you essentially become a single mom and my son's quite young. So the, um, I guess the advice that we received is that he stays in a stable household. So there isn't necessarily a case of, um, joint custody of 50, 50% at this, at this particular point. Um, so, you know, I am his sole carer. Um, and the, I guess when you were going around and getting advice from lawyers and, you know, even if it's Centerlink or, um, uh, nurseries and stuff like that about, um, you know, if I will get getting financial advice, um, it it's quite alarming because the way that the system is structured at the moment means that, eh, that my son technically, well, I would, should re really receive support for him to go to nursery, um, or nursery contributions that would necessarily pay for it, um, in its entirety.

Jasmine:
So, um, the assumption is that the mum or the underlying is it, the mum should be able to then take care of the child up until school. Um, and that, that I was very, very lucky with his father, that he was, he understood the importance of me working and understood the importance of our child going to nursery and socializing. So he was able to facilitate that. But, you know, I'm sure there's many circumstances where people separate and the children are under the school age. Um, and they might be in a dirtier sort of break up where it falls on the mother to kind of make it work really. And I think it's quite shocking. And yeah, that, that, that's the case. How the government sets it up. Yeah, I think, um, I think it's just it's, I mean, nurseries are expensive. Yeah. That's the reality of it and yeah, I guess, um, but then at the same time, I feel like women and I went to university and I have a career. I feel like if I was to stop working for the first five years of his life, I would be ruining my chances and undermining my degree by staying at home. Um, my industry in particular requires me to be sort of on top of things. So it just, it just wouldn't, it wouldn't survive for me to stay outside of, um, I've worked for five years.

Simone Martha Huggins:
It's crazy that that's how it's set up, that it doesn't support women who go back to work. Yeah. Like it's just, and you wonder why I think so many particularly single moms are struggling or they find themselves in a position where they have to choose

Jasmine:
Because it doesn't set themselves up for success. But I think in general, as well, nurseries are so expensive that I'm sure that there's situations where people are together and they still find it hard to be able to justify the expense of full time nursery with working as well. So, yeah.

Simone Martha Huggins:
Yeah.

Simone Martha Huggins:
And so obviously splitting means a lot of different things, obviously in your, when you're a couple, you know, you're always in this position where one person takes on the responsibility of XYZ and the other takes on whatever, does it mean that has things changed for you in terms of, I mean, I just, I know some couples that, where the woman won't even open bills. Cause it's just, just, she just doesn't even look at that as being Dean that she does. Has it changed how you kind of operate around?

Jasmine:
Yeah, it's, it's changed my day to day. Um, even just down to food, like simple things like food planning, right. Um, there's the efficiency side of batch cooking, but there's also the cost efficiency side batch cooking. I think definitely I've had to think about things, um, with a much more, um, tie to, I, you know, I've, I've definitely had to be careful about how I spend my money, um, back to the point of feeling quite vulnerable. It's only me. They can get me out of it now. So, um, yeah, I think, uh, we've had to tighten a few belts, um, through shopping and, um, you know, tip potentially the type of groceries that we get and the activities that we do.

Simone Martha Huggins:
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And does it, does it change in terms of, did you have separate bank accounts when you, you had like together, I mean, this is, uh, the topic of bank accounts when you were together. I think it was discussed at great length by so many people. Do you have joint ones? Do you only have joint ones? Do you have your own separate ones? Like what was your setup?

Jasmine:
So we initially had separate ones for quite a majority of the relationship, but, um, our incomes were different and the way that the, the division of, um, I guess, bills, we kind of worked out a way that the person who was on the higher income was covering a high percentage of the bills. And then we were both left with kind of an expense fund. Right. Um, I guess as well though, the understanding of the, their sort of unsaid understanding was it, if someone was in a bind, then you would have each other to fall back on. Um, then we moved to joint bank accounts. So I guess the visibility became much clearer. I preferred that, um, about what people were spending their money on. Um, but you know, it's, um, it was very much still, this is your, your right, your sort of allocation, and this is my allocation.

Simone Martha Huggins:
And I mean, I don't even think, I know the answer being your friend. Do you have a different allocation to him? No. Okay. So you had the same allocation regardless of what you brought in, right? Yeah. That's very fair. That's good. I think some of, particularly my friends and the way that some other people set it up is they have allocations if they're together, but they're based on how much each person. And then I worry about that because it's a, well, coming back to the phrase you used before, like a power play thing. And like you said, when you're getting married and you're in it together, or even you moving in together, you're looking at it as a long term thing. And it is really what's mine is yours. Like that's the intention.

Jasmine:
Yeah. I think, I think as you said, I've been quite lucky. He's always been quite kind. Um, but yeah, no, um, he, he always, yeah, we always divided it quite fairly. Right.

Simone Martha Huggins:
And so given what, you know, now going through it, when no one expects to go through it, what advice do you wish that you had, or what advice do you think would be helpful to give anyone else?

Jasmine:
Um, I think it's just, um, I wish I was very, I think I was, I wish I had, um, more understanding or appreciation of what it would take to retire. Right. Um, and going over to the UK and not putting money into a pension voluntarily, um, has, has essentially meant backfired on me to some extent. Yeah. Um, I think as well, I be having that spend a personality. I wish I had more of a buffer for myself. Um, because when we separated there, wasn't really a case of, you know, what if I at least check off so much work or if I need to do this referee just a little vacation, like this is the money I've got. Um, so like just even having to separate and move houses costs a lot of money. So I think it's just making sure that you've always just got like a, some extent of fund that can, it's an emergency fund that can cover these kinds of things. I, I actually, my sister talked once about her friends having run money and I remember laughing it off and going, Oh my gosh, like what the hell is run money? What is run? Money will run money, is his money that if you need to leave a relationship, you've got the money. And I had never heard of that term before, but to some extent, I think everyone needs an element of runway, um, and non everything.

Simone Martha Huggins:
One is in the position that you have been in, obviously a breakout would've not have been better to not have happened, but given it, did, you know, you were in a position where things were amicable, you know, you guys talk, he has been very fair in the split, but not everyone's in that position. No, some women in abusive relationships, physical and or emotional and financial abuse is a form of abuse and control and power. And so having run money, I actually really liked,

Jasmine:
Uh, Hmm. I think it's a safety net, um, that, that all people should really have. I think men too, you know? Yeah, absolutely. It's that breakups are expensive. They, you know, setting up someone else's house, um, getting new mattresses, getting new beds, getting, you know, just even having that money to put down a bond that you need to have quite quickly. Like it there's a, there's just all of these costs that you can't even imagine being able to sort of afford a removal truck because it, you need to get out of there.

Simone Martha Huggins:
Yeah. Instantly. Yeah. I think that wise words and certainly the best financial girls in the world will tell you to have a financial, an emergency fund for well, literally emergencies and things like, um, for the things that pop up that you don't even realize they're going to really be there. And everyone should have not just women. Like you said, men too. Um, last question before we go, because I know that this has been something that you have been thinking about, even thinking about investing. I have, were you thinking about it before when you were together?

Jasmine:
Um, probably not. And I think that's, maybe it comes down to that kind of survival technique to some extent, um, you know, I have to be wise and I guess fortunately now as well, I can make my own decisions and, um, and I feel quite empowered by that. Um, it's yeah, I hadn't before. Um, but going into relationships, knowing your relationships, I would definitely continue to do that. Um, I think I was just living in a bubble.

Simone Martha Huggins:
Right? Wow. Sometimes the love bubble is a nice bubble be when you're there.

Jasmine:
Um, no, it definitely wasn't something that I had considered and, but it is definitely something that will continue or that I definitely do in the future.

Simone Martha Huggins:
And you're doing it because things have shifted for you in terms of going, you've used the word exposed a couple of times and you see investing as, as being more security. Definitely. Right. Okay. In place of where you hadn't, where you'd seen it before as kind of being in a relationship, I guess.

Jasmine:
Yeah. I think when, before it was combined assets, it was combined wealth. Well, when you're on your own, it's only your, you know, your wealth, your assets. And I now have myself and, you know, I can only make my own wealth and I want to make sure that I'm protected and my son's got a solid future. And yeah, that comes down to me now and only me.

Simone Martha Huggins:
Well, she has, I certainly wish she the best of luck in the future, you know, that you have me for everyone listening. Now they should know that I am helping to set up her investment fund for her future and her son's future as well. That is it for today. But I would love to know your story. I know that many people have breakups stories, as Jass said, breakups are expensive. And I want to know yours. I've said before, you can ask me questions, leaving messages by the anchor app. And otherwise I will see you on the next episode. I hope you enjoyed today. I hope you've got some insight and some advice for your future relationship, your current relationship, or even just setting yourself up for the future. All right, beautiful. Um, we'll see you next time.